In the second part of this interview, David details his initial reaction to the West Point housing estate in Allesley Village, and how he and his wife interacted with this new build.
Transcript of a Meeting with David
Part 2 of 2
Date: 15th July 2014
Topic: A New Way of Living
Interviewer: So your moving to Allesley village – to bring us back to those early days when you and Juliette settled in the house here, in a way is a continuation of this wonderful idyllic life you’d experienced with your brother when you were evacuated?
David: Hmm.
Interviewer: And that idyllic world did not include a large 1960s housing estate.
David: No. I mean the word ‘housing estate’ you know right that housing estate as opposed to a village street.
Interviewer: So you saw housing estate very much polarised with the concept of something like a village street which was far more traditional?
David: Yeah.
Interviewer: Can you say a little bit more about your antagonism towards the idea of an estate or your negativity towards it?
David: It’s not antagonism of them at all, it’s… I don’t know what it is – I suppose every estate develops into a community eventually doesn’t it but-, and don’t forget no doubt all those centuries ago, somebody objected to this house being built saying what’s that you know monstrosity being built on Binley Road and things like that and particularly the one next door to number 67!
Interviewer: For you though, was the idea of West Point something that you objected to – was it to do with the scale of it or was it the architecture, the layout, what was it that you thought inappropriate?
David: When you say object ,you know, I didn’t get a banner out and go parading, I just observed and thought it’s a bit inappropriate. Yeah but not to take arms and protest and lie on the floor in front of it with a banner and all that sort of thing. No it was just-, and it was somewhere there, it wasn’t at the front of my mind, it was just oh well, life goes on.
Interviewer: What was happening in the village in the early 60s is that a lot of the village – its rural areas, its fields were being built on weren’t they – not just West Point but that was a very big area, but there was also Browns Lanes, Rectory Close was being developed, you’d got an area down in fact Windmill Hill and actually Brownshill Lane…
David: I think those were more obvious weren’t they, you know you come into the village you don’t see them Rectory Lane do you – you don’t see but you somehow you see.
Interviewer: So West Point you could see it. David: You could see it, yeah.
Interviewer: When you turned into West Point which was from Bexfield-, from Birmingham Road and you turned into what was at that time called Road Number 1 which became Bexfield Close and you saw these flat roof bungalows and you had quite a [and the shops] and the shops – you had quite a reaction to the bungalows, that they were flat roof. What did they remind you of – anything that you’d seen previously in your life?
David: Belsen (laughs) – no I’m being facetious. Yes – air raid shelters.
Interviewer: They reminded you or air raid shelters?
David: Yes.
Interviewer: So they didn’t feel like a home to you?
David: No.
Interviewer: What did they feel like – more an industrial building? I mean you described an air raid shelter but…
David: Yeah well they were industrial weren’t they were quick build.
Interviewer: So actually your definition of the home, the one that you were keeping in your heart and your head – this was not it?
David: No.
Interviewer: Can you say something about your reaction to the form of the building – can you remember the form of the building? Yes it was flat roofed but…
David: Flat roofed and well, you know not inspiring at all, was it – no charisma.
Interviewer: There was no charisma?
David: No…. It was just there you know, could be an air raid shelter painted over with brickwork. Don’t forget I was brought up in the era of air raid shelters and they do look, you know flat roof, square. Alright, air raid shelters didn’t have windows but, you know they just-, you think if that’s the extent of architects thinking apart from economy, do a quick build – and it comes across as quick build doesn’t it?
Interviewer: Comes across as a quick build?
David: Yeah.
Interviewer: So everything about the look of it didn’t make you think of a house that had character or could endure [no] but was a quick build?
David: Yeah, not looking out onto a nice little suburban by-rows as well, you know, I mean…
Interviewer: So something about the layout of the landscape around?
David: Yeah around it, made it all look, you know, quick build and you know, all you’ve
got to do is build four walls, put a flat top on it and that’s it.
Interviewer: So the work that the architect did in designing that house, for you, actually looked like not much thought had gone into it, is that right?
David: Well, they’d thought about quick build.
Interviewer: So it was functional?
David: Functional way. Yeah.
Interviewer: And so from your point of view of what you wanted in a home, did you see functionality in contrast to the idea of character… because the cottage here-
David: Well I mean character develops over the years and I’m sure generations to come, you know, next four generations will say, wonderful, look at that beautiful old place built in 1980 whenever it was, but you know, at the moment in this environment, to me, they jar they always have done.
Interviewer: And they still jar for you do they?
David: Yeah, they jarred when they did, and they jar now. I can remember we all walked
round to have a look, you know, (tut) oh, you know.
Interviewer: Can you remember who you walked round with when you walked round to look at them?
David: Probably Juliette and some chums of mine, you know.
Interviewer: And can you remember any conversations you had with them about the
houses?
David: No, no, not really only that you know, ‘umm not really’.
Interviewer: A bit disgruntled?
David: Yeah
Interviewer: Can I ask you in terms of the other parts of the village that were also being developed in the early 60’s, the council estate for example, did you have a similar reaction to the building of those houses, or because they were slightly out of view you felt less…
David: Well, the out of views here, I mean I don’t think I have ever been up there (laughs) so I can’t comment. No it’s strange. No you tend to …probably cos I’m village orientated you know, you tend to stay around I mean the far sort of west I go is the village hall (laughs).
Interviewer: did you ever go to the shops that were on the edge of West Point Estate on Gardenia Close there were three-
David: Yes, yes and the barbers and the, yes.
Interviewer: And so would going to the shops on the edge of West Point Estate be the furthest you would ever go towards the estate?
David: Yes probably, yes. Sorry I’m not an expert.
Interviewer: You talked a little bit about, at the time who you thought might be living there and that it certainly wasn’t people like you, although actually-
David: Nobody’s like me!
Interviewer: Although you were in fact in a Director position so you financially could have afforded to live there but culturally you didn’t feel that you would fit in – is that right?
David: I never even thought about it. We were here and they were there. I never even thought about it.
Interviewer: Did you think at the time of that area as being an estate or is that a term that you’ve actually learnt to call it later – did you call it an estate then in 1963?
David: No we just, no.
Interviewer: Because it was called West Point.
David: Yeah we just called it West Point.
Interviewer: You didn’t call it anything else?
David: We didn’t regard it as an estate cos you could only see three couldn’t you really.
Interviewer: So you referred to it as West Point. Can you remember at what point you might have started to refer to it as the estate or an estate as opposing to by its name West Point?
David: I don’t think I’ve ever called it an estate. No I don’t – I think we know it as West Point.
Interviewer: You knew it as West Point and you would still refer to it as West Point?
David: Yeah, pretty sure, yeah.
Interviewer: Would the term ‘executive estate’ ever have come into your thinking?
David: Never. Executive estate – never. Never even thought (laughs) I can’t even accept the concept of it, executive estate– that’s rather demeaning on the rest of the population isn’t it… yeah.
Interviewer: So for you, since 1963 when you moved into the village, how would you characterise for you personally how the village has changed?
David: Slowly, nicely and don’t forget a village is people, it’s not the rabbit hutches in which they live or anything like that, it’s the people and I wouldn’t swap it for the world.
Interviewer: And when you first moved in here in 1963 in the wake of two previous colleagues you’d had at work who’d also lived here, did you furnish the house very differently than the way they furnished it?
David: Oh yes, yes.
Interviewer: Can you remember what kind of furniture you put into this house in 1963?
David: Oh yes, I mean for instance – don’t forget I was working at the GEC at the time and the GEC had a wonderful cabinet shop because they had to make all telephone exchanges out of teak to go for export so that the bugs didn’t eat in so, for instance I had made a big dining room table by buying teak from the GEC… machine I might add (laughs) to be assembled here and things like that. Yeah I just…
Interviewer: Did you furnish it with modern furniture or did you- David: It was modern in there, here we’ve always liked this – soft chairs- Interviewer: So dining room was always modern and in your-
David: Well not really, you know, eventually we got rid of the teak and we got a nice round oak table and things like that. I don’t think-, there’s not much else modern, they’re all acquired. I mean we acquired that, I was driving back from the south somewhere and that was in an antique shop window and I just pulled up as simple as that.
Interviewer: So that’s the blue sofa?
David: Yeah I’ll have that, and that was outside an antique shop.
Interviewer So that’s an old pub table?
David: Yeah an old pub table. Oh and that’s the first piece of furniture when I-
Interviewer: This is a ladder-back chair?
David: Yeah when I lived in Calundon Road I bought that, repainted it and had it re-seated and that was the very first piece of furniture we ever acquired.
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Interviewer: And were you always looking out for old pieces of furniture in preference to new pieces of furniture?
David: Yes.
Interviewer: And do you know where that came from in you, that interest in old rather than new?
David: (laughs) Well you could say it’s the same for the estate, I look for the old rather than the new. No I always have, I’ve always liked old general stuff, old fire places and things like that, you know.
Interviewer: And would that be the same for your brother or would you brother prefer new?
David: He’s newish because he lives out in whatsit past the Memorial Park you know, Styvechale, Stiv-e-chale.
Interviewer: So he’s always really preferred modern whereas you’ve always gone more for… and are you buying old because you see it as being more intrinsically valuable or that it’s got more character? What is it about old do you think that attracts you?
David: Comfort.
Interviewer: Anything about the idea of quality in materials?
David: Ooh yeah Juliette she’s – don’t forget she’s a professional seamstress in a way and teacher of fabrics and all that sort of thing so she knows what these are (laughs).
Interviewer: So you’re looking at the quality of something when you buy it? David: Yeah definitely.
Interviewer: Quality and its shape and aesthetic form?
David: Yeah and whether it will fit into this sort of place.
Interviewer: you thinking right from the outset, what would be appropriate to put in here? Were you thinking appropriateness?
David: No, no it just happened. You know we’d be going away somewhere and suddenly see… I mean when we first came here, we ate off the floor and we didn’t have curtains and I can remember once we invited some friends and they all sat on the floor and it was Sunday morning and we’d got no curtains and they were all going up to the church, they all stopped and looked – strange people sitting on the floor having aperitifs.
Interviewer: Were you determined not to furnish your house like your mum’s house? Was there a sense of wanting it to look different?
David: No my mum’s house was very comfortable, yeah very comfortable.
Interviewer: So your idea primarily is to do with comfort?
David: Yeah, being able to sit in a chair and have a snooze and things like that.
Interviewer: So comfort for you is being found in older furniture rather than modern furniture?
David: Yes. Do you know a modern chair that’s as comfortable as the one you’re sitting in? You lean back, they’re wonderful.
Interviewer: And in terms of the kind of things that we see on the wall and the objects and ornaments that you’ve collected – have you collected things that again you thought would look appropriate to a 17
David: Oh yes. So I make things, you know, I made that shelf and I’m a wood carver and those things are…
Interviewer: And spoons. And when you’re making things like your lovely shelving unit, where did the patterns and the from come from that you follow – are they coming from the idea of craft, are you modelling them on old pieces of furniture that you’ve seen?
David: That I’ve seen, yeah.
Interviewer: So you’re looking at older craft pieces that you’ve seen, rather than actually
trying to make something that’s modern?
David: Yeah.
Interviewer: If there was a period in history in terms of furnishings and objects that you would like more than any other, what would that be do you think, if you could say – maybe you can’t?
David: I don’t know, what are the periods of furnishing?
Interviewer: particularly or… do you like the feel of country?
David: No it’s intuition you know, most of the stuff that you see around here is brought intuitively, we didn’t go out… okay Julie went out to find these materials and things like that but we didn’t go out to find these chairs, stools, chairs, stools, tables, you know, it was sort of accidental, inspirational ‘ooh we’ll have that’.
Interviewer: And so you never went into Coventry town centre and would go to John Anslow’s-
David: Oh yes, yes there’s one or two Anslow things.
Interviewer: So you would go to look?
David: Yeah and I think we’ve bought something from Anslow’s – Julie would remember, I can’t.
Interviewer: But primarily for you furniture is acquired through serendipity and accident and is bought intuitively?
David: Yeah. I’m not a great – you wouldn’t believe it, I’m not a great planner as Julie will tell you – it happens, it does. Anything else?
Interviewer: I think that’s a perfect note to end on, it just happens.
David: We used to say in business about change, you don’t like rapid change, you like, and you take furnishings, you know, you go into some houses now and if you’ve got high heels on you can’t hear yourself talk, you know, you’ve got to have soft furnishings to absorb the noise of life, you don’t want a sort of, hard surfaced room where you know the clatters on.
Whereas you’ve got to take people along with you, it’s got to develop and it’s got to not be outside their horizon, you know, you can’t just come along and say right, we’re going to take all this furniture out and put plastic chairs in and things like that. One day there may be plastic chairs in here but, you know, it will take time to get people used to plastic chairs.
Interviewer: Do you think that flat roof Austin Smith Lord bungalows that you saw in the 1960’s up at the West Point estate, was that too big a change too quickly?
David: At that time yeah, oh terrible, terrible, I mean we all went to look – God, what have they, who thought of that, who designed it – a school boy with a pen and pencil and a set square? (laugh) We had a flat roof by there-
Interviewer: Do you think that people would of found that change too quick, too rapid, that the design of that house was too big a change?
David: Leap – yeah, yes I think so. At the time, you know, but, you know, most things, most new innovations start with people saying, oh I don’t like it, and then gradually – like essentially when this house is pulled down and the next door is pulled down, they’ll be saying ah, aren’t they beautiful houses, look what they’ve put up where that terrible rubble used to be.
Interviewer: So innovation is something that is part of a cycle for you?
David: Yes
Interviewer: And it can’t come too rapidly?
David: No, oh no you can’t, change has to be acceptable, not, well we all know that don’t we but anybody comes to try and change and you know, you’ll say you can’t do it.
Interviewer: Can you shock people? Can innovation change people positively by shocking them out of what they know into something else, do you think?
David: Well they may accept it at the time, but what happens in their minds and thereafter can be slightly different in a way, you know. We were always taught in business that you do not surprise people.
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